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Minor Queries Answered
Supporters borne by Commoners.—Can any of your readers state why some commoners bear supporters, and whether the representatives of Bannerets are entitled to do so? I find in Burke's Dictionary of Landed Gentry, that several gentlemen in England, Scotland, and Ireland continue to use them. See Fulford, p. 452.; Wyse, p. 1661.; Hay-Newton, p. 552., &c. &c.
The late Mr. Portman, father of Lord Portman, used supporters, as do Sir W. Carew, Bart., and some other baronets.
Guinegate.
[Baronets are not entitled, as such, to bear supporters, which are the privilege of the peerage and the knights of the orders.
There are many baronets who by virtue of especial warrants from the sovereign have, as acts of grace and favour, in consideration of services rendered to the state, received such grants; and in these instances they are limited to descend with the dignity only. No doubt there are some private families who assume and improperly bear supporters, but whose right to do so, even under their own statements as to origin and descent, has no legal foundation. "Notes And Queries" afford neither space nor place for the discussion of such questions, or for the remarks upon a correction of statements in the works quoted.]
Answer to Fisher's Relation.—I have a work published at London by Adam Islip, an. 1620, the title-page of which bears—
"An Answere to Mr. Fisher's Relation of a Third Conference betweene a certaine B. (as he stiles him) and himselfe. The conference was very private till Mr. Fisher spread certaine papers of it, which in many respects deserved an Answere. Which is here given by R. B., Chapleine to the B. that was employed in the conference."
Pray, who was the chaplain? I have heard he was the after-famous Archbishop Laud.
I pray your assistance in the resolution of this Query.
J. M.
Liverpool.
[This famous conference was the third held by divines of the Church of England with the Jesuit Fisher (or Perse, as his name really was: see Dodd's Church History, vol. iii. p. 394.). The first two were conducted by Dr. Francis White: the latter by Bishop Laud, was held in May, 1622, and the account of it published by R. B. (i.e. Dr. Richard Baylie, who married Laud's niece, and was at that time his chaplain, and afterwards president of St. John's College, Oxford). Should J. M. possess a copy printed in 1620, it would be a literary curiosity. Laud says himself, that "his Discourse was not printed till April, 1624."]
Drink up Eisell (Vol. iii., p. 119.).—Here is a passage in Troilus and Cressida, in which drink up occurs (Act IV. Sc. 1.):
"He, like a puling cuckold, would drink up
The lees and dregs of a flat-tamed piece."
The meaning is plainly here avaler, not boire.
Here is another, which does not perhaps illustrate the passage in Hamlet, but resembles it (Act III. Sc. 2.):
"When we vow to weep seas, live in fire, eat rocks, tame tigers, thinking it harder for our mistress to devise imposition enough, than for us to undergo any difficulty imposed."
C. B.
[We are warned by several correspondents that this subject is becoming as bitter as wormwood to them. Before we dismiss it, however, we must record in our pages the opinion of one of the most distinguished commentators of the day, Mr. Hunter, who in his New Illustrations, vol. ii. p. 263., after quoting "potions of eysell" from the sonnet, says, "This shows it was not any river so called, but some desperate drink. The word occurs often in a sense in which acetum is the best representative, associated with verjuice and vinegar. It is the term used for one ingredient of the bitter potion given to our Saviour on the cross, about the composition of which the commentators are greatly divided. Thus the eighth prayer of the Fifteen Oos in the Salisbury Primer, 1555, begins thus: 'O Blessed Jesu, sweetness of heart and ghostly pleasure of souls, I beseech thee for the bitterness of the aysell and gall that thou tasted and suffered for me in thy passion,' &c."
Since the above was written, we have received a communication from An English Mother with the words and music of the nursery song, showing that the music does not admit the expressions "eat up," and "drink up;" quoting from Haldorson's Icelandic Lexicon, Eysill, m. Haustrum en Ose allsa; and asking what if Shakspeare meant either a pump or a bucket? We have also received a Note from G. F. G. showing that eisel in Dutch, German, and Anglo-Saxon, &c., meant vinegar, and stating, that during his residence in Florence in 1817, 1818, and 1819, he had often met with wormwood wine at the table of the Italians, a weak white wine of Tuscany, in which wormwood had been infused, which was handed round by the servants immediately after the soup, and was believed to promote digestion.]
Saxon Coin struck at Derby.—In the reign of Athelstan there was a royal mint at Derby, and a coinage was struck, having on the obverse merely the name of the town, Deoraby, and on the other side the legend "HEGENREDES MO . ON . DEORABY." What is the meaning of this inscription?
R. C. P.
Derby, Feb. 26. 1851.
[If HEGENREDES is rightly written, it is the name of a moneyer. MO . ON . DEORABY signifies Monetarius (or Moneyer) in Derby. Coins are known with MEGENFRED and MEGNEREDTES, and our correspondent may have read his coin wrongly.]
Replies
SCANDAL AGAINST QUEEN ELIZABETH
(Vol. ii., p. 393.; Vol. iii., pp. 11. 151. 197.)
The Marquis of Ormonde having been informed that certain statements, little complimentary to the reputation of Queen Elizabeth, and equally discreditable to the name of his ancestor, Thomas, Earl of Ormonde, have appeared in "Notes and Queries," wherein it is stated "that the Ormonde family possess documents which afford proof of this," begs to assure the editor of the journal in question, that the Ormonde collection of papers, &c. contains nothing that bears the slightest reference to the very calumnious attack on the character of good Queen Bess.
Hampton Court, March 17. 1851.
[If the Marquis of Ormonde will do us the favour to refer to our Number for the 8th March (No. 71.), he will find he has not been correctly informed with respect to the article to which his note relates. The family in which the papers are stated to exist, is clearly not that of the noble Marquis, but the family with which our correspondent "J. Bs." states himself to be "connected;" and we hope J. Bs. will, in justice both to himself and to Queen Elizabeth, adopt the course suggested in the following communication. We believe the warmest admirers of that great Queen cannot better vindicate her character than by making a strict inquiry into the grounds for the scandals, which, as has been already shown (antè, No. 62. p. 11.), were so industriously circulated against her.]
J. Bs. says papers are "said to exist in the family which prove the statement." As it is one of scandal against a female, and that female a great sovereign, should he not ascertain the fact of the existence of any such paper, before supporting the scandal, and not leave a tradition to be supported by another tradition, when a little trouble might show whether any papers exist, and when found what their value may be.
Q. G.
THE MISTLETOE ON THE OAK
(Vol. ii., pp. 163. 214.; Vol. iii., p. 192.)
From having been a diligent searcher for the mistletoe on the oak, I may be allowed to make a few remarks upon the question. Is it ever found now on other trees? Now, it not only occurs abundantly on other trees, but it is exceedingly rare on the oak. This may be gathered from the following list, in which numbers have been used to express comparative frequency, as near as my observations enable me to form a judgment:—
On Native Trees.
25
Apple (various sorts)
20
Poplar (mostly the black)
10
Whitethorn
4
Lime
3
Maple
2
Willow
1
Oak
On Foreign Trees.
1
Sycamore
1
Robinia
From this it would appear that notwithstanding the British Oak grows everywhere, it is at present only favoured by the companionship of the mistletoe in equal ratio with two comparatively recently introduced trees. Indeed such objection does this parasite manifest to the brave old tree, even in his teens, that, notwithstanding a newly-planted line of mixed trees will become speedily attacked by it, the oak is certain to be left in his pride alone.
I have, however, seen the mistletoe on the oak in two instances during my much wandering about amid country scenes, especially of Gloucester and Worcester, two great mistletoe counties. One was pointed out to me by my friend, Mr. Lees, from whom we may expect much valuable information on this subject, in his forthcoming edition of the Botanical Looker-out—it was on a young tree, perhaps of fifty years, in Eastnor Park, on the Malvern chain. The other example is at Frampton-on-Severn, to which the President of the Cotteswold Naturalists' Club, T. B. L. Baker, Esq., and myself, were taken by Mr. Clifford, of Frampton. The tree is full a century old, and the branch, on which was a goodly bunch of the parasite, numbered somewhere about forty years. That the plant is propagated by seeds there can, I think, be but little doubt, as the seeds are so admirably adapted for the peculiar circumstances under which alone they can propagate; and the want of attention to the facts connected therewith, is probably the cause why the propagation of the mistletoe by artificial means is usually a failure.
I should be inclined to think that the mistletoe never was abundant on the oak; so that it may be that additional sanctity was conferred on the Viscum guerneum on account of its great rarity.
James Buckman.
Cirencester.
Mistletoe upon Oak (Vol. ii., p. 214.).—Besides the mistletoe-bearing oak mentioned by your correspondent, there is one in Lord Somers' park, near Malvern. It is a very fine plant, though it has been injured by sight-seeing marauders.
H. A. B.
Trinity College, Cambridge.
Mistletoe (Vol. ii., pp. 163., 214.).—Do I understand your correspondent to ask whether mistletoe is found now except on oaks? The answer is, as at St. Paul's, "Circumspice." Just go into the country a little. The difficulty is generally supposed to be to find it on the oak.
C. B.
